View Full Version : acl tear. no op yet. strapping an option??
blindside
11-09-2005, 03:58 PM
hey guys, nice site!! glad i found it.
did an acl rupture a few months ago playing rugby overseas. i play here in sydney. but due to MANY insurance stuffups (on both parts) i have to wait 12 months for the op. i really want to play again next year, starting in jan/feb i guess. what are my options? ive read on plenty of sites about guys playing top level for atleast a season with-out the op and plenty of re-hab or pre-hab i guess it would be.
anyone on here played rugby league or union without the op??? Matt Adamson did his, i wonder if i could get in contact with him somewhere. has he since had an op?? when did he do it?? my legs are quite big and i have been running on it with no pain, but it does click every now and then....
thanks for your time and hope to get some answers soon!!
cheers
BS :D
Matt Adamson did his in 1999 and played on until 2005, but I wouldn't recommend it personally. His knee is absolutely stuffed to the max now.
He's looking at a total knee replacment in about 3-5 years and he's only 34. I hope those 7 years of footy were worth it for him.
If you want to play next year then I'd suggest you hit the leg weights and physio as soon as you're able so you can give your knee maximum time to build up strength.
Unregistered
11-09-2005, 06:35 PM
Matt Adamson did his in 1999 and played on until 2005, but I wouldn't recommend it personally. His knee is absolutely stuffed to the max now.
He's looking at a total knee replacment in about 3-5 years and he's only 34. I hope those 7 years of footy were worth it for him.
If you want to play next year then I'd suggest you hit the leg weights and physio as soon as you're able so you can give your knee maximum time to build up strength.
cheers mate! i have been doing leg weights, squats and leg press, plus all my exercises & physio.
what do you think about the strapping? it would definately stop it twisting if nothing else.
thanks for the reply, appreciate it!!
BS :)
No worries mate.
I'm not sure about the strapping to be honest. I guess once a week for a 60-80 minute game it couldn't hurt.
You might also want to use a medical knee brace, like the once you can get in chemists in addition to the strapping.
I wouldn't use tape for everyday otherwise you'll become too reliant on it. Just make sure you keep up all the hard stuff at the gym and physio to give yourself the best chance.
It might also be a pretty good idea to check everything with your OS or Doctor first before lacing on the boots, just to be sure.
Good luck and I hope you make it back to footy next year.
Hey there
I dont know what your knee is like, but if it is anything like mine was when I ruptured my ACL there is no way I'd play sport on it. I couldnt. Mine was buckling something chronic. It was ok to walk on, but anything above a slow jog meant it was very unstable.... and the more I tried to run the more unstable it became.
I did the injury in December last year and by May this year had a reco done. It was my only option for getting back to sports, and although the rehab is really, really tough, Im glad that I went for that option. My surgeon actually commented that for someone that has played high level netball for 20 years I have pretty good knees, the only thing I'd damaged was the ACL nothing else, and that wsa largely because I'd looked after it after I damaged it and got the surgery done as soon as we realised what was the problem. I realise that you have to wait for your surgery, but seriously.... is it worth playing contact sport and risking the long term health of your knee at this stage?? MAybe staying in the gym til your surgery might be safer?? I know you probably dont want to hear these comments, as I know how you are feeling right now..... I was there also last December. It is a frustrating thing to have happen and there are days that I wish that I never took the court the night that I injured my ACL, but at the moment Im looking forward to having a hit of tennis just after Christmas and hopefully returning to my netball club as the season begins. I have a long way to go, lots of muscle to rebuild, but it will get there.
In terms of the strapping idea, both my PT and OS say that if you are going to do damage to knees and ankles, no amount of strapping will save them. If they are going to go, they are going to go. I think that you really should talk to your OS and PT before you try to play sports....
Alla
Alla when you did yours, did you rupture it completely, or was it a partial that became loose and unstable.
blindside
12-09-2005, 05:21 AM
thanks guys.
yes it is a tough decision!!! i will be checking everything out before i play again. i have been running on it with no pain what so ever. sprints and jogs. im seeing my physio tonight, but i wanted to ask people on here who have been thru it personally.
thanks again for the replys, its great.
cheers and have a good day,
Blindside :)
blindside
12-09-2005, 07:01 AM
just another couple of quick ones, thanks for the strapping tip too. i would have thought to strap it at training as well.
AND, what are the other injuries that can happen to the rest of your knee that have an increased risk of occuring. lots of sites are just saying 'risking further injury' ??
cheers guys and hope your knees are feeling good. seeing my physio this arvo will let you know what they say!! :)
Bside :D
Hey there
Mine was a complete rupture. It had compltely snapped. I have a video of the reconstruction surgery and you can see it completely torn, all shredded up like a torn up rag and bits of it dangling in the fluid in my knee. Apparently I dont do things by halves! Fortunately I had little other damage in my knee...
I will add that I could walk on my knee without pain, and could run on it too without pain.... it just didnt feel right, in fact it felt really unstable so I chose to take it easy and get it seen to. The frustrating thing was that there wasnt any pain so it felt ok, just didnt want to stay together! And when they did the lachmans test on it I really saw why.... I think the "further injury" refers to things like tearing cartlige, damage to your meniscus, buckling and tearing other ligaments, things like that. For me I didnt want to go through all that as well. Being careful has paid off so far, although Im still working on getting back to sport. I havent run since December.... but Im off to the tredmill at the gym today to have a go at it!
Alla
blindside
12-09-2005, 08:22 AM
ok. as im seeing from this forum, there are so many varying degrees of the injury!!! i have a complete rupture as well, but am able to run etc. the muscles in my legs have held everything together and my physio is amazed at the amount of muscle still in the quads even after the injury.
good luck on the treadmill, hope it works out for you, you seem to be doing it the right way!!! :)
Bside
Hey there
Mine was a complete rupture. It had compltely snapped. I have a video of the reconstruction surgery and you can see it completely torn, all shredded up like a torn up rag and bits of it dangling in the fluid in my knee. Apparently I dont do things by halves! Fortunately I had little other damage in my knee...
I will add that I could walk on my knee without pain, and could run on it too without pain.... it just didnt feel right, in fact it felt really unstable so I chose to take it easy and get it seen to. The frustrating thing was that there wasnt any pain so it felt ok, just didnt want to stay together! And when they did the lachmans test on it I really saw why.... I think the "further injury" refers to things like tearing cartlige, damage to your meniscus, buckling and tearing other ligaments, things like that. For me I didnt want to go through all that as well. Being careful has paid off so far, although Im still working on getting back to sport. I havent run since December.... but Im off to the tredmill at the gym today to have a go at it!
Alla
blindside
12-09-2005, 12:31 PM
i just saw my physio, (in the UNSW complex) and they now reckon that its not a full tear!! and there is alot less movement than when i first went in!! i know it doesnt heal itself but its good news for me and they also said i could play on it, cautiously at first with training etc, and strapping would, as spk and alla said, help a little, but mostly psychologically!! so im pretty happy with that outcome and 3 of the physios saw me today and did their own assesments of it and all came to the same conclusion. weather its scar tissue forming to create a sort of bond or not im not sure....
cheers guys,
Bside. :D
A partial, that's better news definantly.
You're just going to have to be really really careful with footy now. One little knock and it could go. Those mauls will be the biggest danger for you I reckon.
But you sound pretty confident, so congrats.
Unregistered
12-09-2005, 03:27 PM
Have you heard of a product called Bionicare for Degeneration of cartilage? It is working wonders in the USA
What is it, like Glucosomine?
blindside
12-09-2005, 05:08 PM
Have you heard of a product called Bionicare for Degeneration of cartilage? It is working wonders in the USA
have you got anymore info on it?? Cell Biology make a tendon spray and a bone gel which i have been using and found it seems to be helping....
That is great news!!! I still would be careful, but it is great that it isnt as bad as first thought!
I asked about taking glucosamine for my knee and wsa told unless you are suffering from arthritis I wouldnt bother..... for a straight out injury I guess the benefits arent there as much as if you have arthritis. Having said that I know stacks of people that reckon it is ok.
Im always a bit cautious of these sorts of supplements, Im not sure that products like this can really help unless your body is lacking what they supply (sorry, it is the physiologist in me!).... but I guess on the flip side, if they work for you then why not?
Alla
blindside
13-09-2005, 05:05 PM
how has the glucosamine worked for you? i heard it takes about 2 months to kick in.
did sprints and sleds today, knee is feeling fine. icing now.
That is great news!!! I still would be careful, but it is great that it isnt as bad as first thought!
I asked about taking glucosamine for my knee and wsa told unless you are suffering from arthritis I wouldnt bother..... for a straight out injury I guess the benefits arent there as much as if you have arthritis. Having said that I know stacks of people that reckon it is ok.
Im always a bit cautious of these sorts of supplements, Im not sure that products like this can really help unless your body is lacking what they supply (sorry, it is the physiologist in me!).... but I guess on the flip side, if they work for you then why not?
Alla
how has the glucosamine worked for you? i heard it takes about 2 months to kick in.
did sprints and sleds today, knee is feeling fine. icing now.
Personally, Im not taking it. I was advised not to worry about it because I dont have aproblem with arthritis at thi point. I have also heard that it can take a while to kick in....
Good on you for the sprints and sleds. I managed an 8 km road bike ride today.... feeling ok too.
Alla
i just saw my physio, (in the UNSW complex) and they now reckon that its not a full tear!! and there is alot less movement than when i first went in!! i know it doesnt heal itself but its good news for me and they also said i could play on it, cautiously at first with training etc, and strapping would, as spk and alla said, help a little, but mostly psychologically!! so im pretty happy with that outcome and 3 of the physios saw me today and did their own assesments of it and all came to the same conclusion. weather its scar tissue forming to create a sort of bond or not im not sure....
cheers guys,
Bside. :D
Have you had an MRI scan yet? I'd definantly get one of those before you do anything. I don't doubt that yours is a good physio but it wouldn't be such a bad idea to get official confirmation anyway... just in case.
For all you know you might be a lucky bastard and just have a torn meniscus!
blindside
14-09-2005, 07:47 PM
have you guys, alla and spk, tried a spin class??? they are good fitness and good for my knee. ask your physio about them. i found it very beneficial, plus its good fun and fitness......
I've heard of them but I haven't been to one...yet
I try do a fair bit of cycling during the week at the gym anyway.
They have them at the UNSW gym yeah?
Unregistered
14-09-2005, 09:40 PM
have you guys, alla and spk, tried a spin class??? they are good fitness and good for my knee. ask your physio about them. i found it very beneficial, plus its good fun and fitness......
I think we have something similar, I think it is called RPM. Unfortunately my knee is not able to bike for that long and that hard at the moment....Im told by friends that do the class that they have to dial it up a fair bit..... but it sounds like fun! An hour long walk through the bush upsets my knee.... I bike 8 kms a day on the road bike as it is.. but have to go at a pace my knee can take.... pretty slow at the moment. I dont see my PT anymore, he finished up with me 10 weeks after my surgery..... Once my knee is up to it I'll look into it thou
Alla
blindside
15-09-2005, 02:18 PM
I think we have something similar, I think it is called RPM. Unfortunately my knee is not able to bike for that long and that hard at the moment....Im told by friends that do the class that they have to dial it up a fair bit..... but it sounds like fun! An hour long walk through the bush upsets my knee.... I bike 8 kms a day on the road bike as it is.. but have to go at a pace my knee can take.... pretty slow at the moment. I dont see my PT anymore, he finished up with me 10 weeks after my surgery..... Once my knee is up to it I'll look into it thou
Alla
yeh its also known as RPM. you can do it at your own level at first, i had to!!! i love it now, they turn up the music, off with the lights, and its good with the knee...
blindside
17-09-2005, 05:11 PM
did my physio endorsed leg workout today. knee felt fine.
squats
step ups
stiff leg deads (for hamstrings)
lunges
one legged squats
plus the usual exercises and stretches. plenty of ice after and the knee feels good this arvo.
did my physio endorsed leg workout today. knee felt fine.
squats
step ups
stiff leg deads (for hamstrings)
lunges
one legged squats
plus the usual exercises and stretches. plenty of ice after and the knee feels good this arvo.
Good stuff mate.
You'll get over those Lunges and Squats quick smart!
Unregistered
11-11-2005, 11:19 PM
Bionicare is a pulsed electric stem wrap that you wear at night. In clinical studies it has been able to regenerate hyaline cartilage. It increases function, reduces pain and symptoms in the knee.
Unregistered
22-11-2005, 01:50 PM
I don't play rugby, but I do play a high leve lof competition in basketball here in the states. I tore my ACL last December - partial 30-50%. Opted for no surgery
I've lightly strengthened my legs and been good about the stretching all year.
And three months ago, I started playing ball again 2 to 3 times a week. Sometimes for 5 hours or more (on and waiting for games). i felt very strong and was back to throwing it down with effort. The explosiveness felt like it was mostly back. I wore a prescription, custom knee brace anytime I played and started to feel great and confident.
Then, three weeks ago, I went to dunk the ball on some little guard, and the knee hyperextended enough to make me fall to the ground. I had my knee brace on but it wasn't super tight because of circulation. The pain was considerable for a week.
I just got the MRI and my doctor confirmed that I tore the ACL completely and also tore the Miniscus. I go into surgery tomorrow.
My point is this. I was in great shape before I the injury. Very strong. I fooled myself into thinking everything was okay. And it felt like it was. No real indications of a problem.
Get the surgery. Immediately. Preferably with a cadaver tendon, from what I understand. Lesss thigh problems and patellar problems. If I had gotten it done this summer, i would be playing at 80% next month. I regret that.___
Unregistered
24-11-2005, 03:15 PM
they dont do the cadaver surgery here in oz mate. its the hamstring graft. i met donald shelbourne, knee guru, when i was in the states, he seemed keen on the idea but here in oz they treat the cadavers different and it weakens tendons and they wouldnt be strong enough for some reason...
i had mine checked the other day at our medical, didnt tell the doc or physio about it, they checked both my knees, did all the twisting and turning and said "everything is in order" !!!! so im not sure who to beleive!! strange. been doign lots of running, stepping, beach running it feels fine!! weird...
blindside
Kelemedi
06-12-2005, 01:40 PM
Played on after taking 1 year off after a substantial tear to my right ACL, and found that there were not any problems with straight line speed, movement, flexibility and strength. Played touch and run/stretched lots as a lead-in to getting it right and after 12 months and a season of touch felt ready to give rugby a go again.
But after 1 game of rugby I realised that it was not that simple. Did not have too many problems until I had to take a side hit or really push off the right leg in a lateral motion. There was no support in the knee for such a movement and I basically collapsed each time I had to do this. I then had the knee strapped before each subsequent game (3 more) to see whether I could work around this but this put pressure on other parts of the knee which resulted in damage to my patella. This I have been told can lead to athritic problems later in life. Bone on bone....
Eventually I had swelling after each game and after my last game I had so much pain that I could hardly walk.
In the end I decided to pursue the resonstruction. Its been 10 weeks since the op but so I hope I don't ever have the feeling of having no lateral support like I did.
I weighed 85 kgs, fairly strong bone structure and muscle mass on calves, quads, etc, and played in the backs.
Unregistered
07-12-2005, 08:15 AM
Thanks for your comments Kelemedi,I think it is worth hearing some stories like this.... Im sure that your knee will feel much better as it heals and that the Reco was worth it. Im 7 months in.... no regrets.... other then that I left it too long before having it done because we didnt know what was wrong with it.
Alla
blindside
07-12-2005, 07:17 PM
been at rugby training now for 4 weeks. no op. done contact work, change directions, sprints, tackling, sand hills, no problem so far. been using cellbiology's tendon spray plus ALL my exercises. had a medical and even the staff were like, "gee, there isnt much movement in your knee now"
they dont reckon ill even need it strapped!! but i will. the doctor said i could be in the 3% of acl injurees that can be managed with exercise and strength program. i squatted 168kgs for 3 reps in the strength test 3 weeks ago. no soreness, nothing....
blindside....
rob762
09-12-2005, 08:07 AM
good on ya blindy sounds like you're pretty serious about the footy, do you play anywhere famous?
blindside
11-12-2005, 06:57 PM
good on ya blindy sounds like you're pretty serious about the footy, do you play anywhere famous?
i play for one of the better known rugby clubs. pretty professional set-up, we have a few wallabies and 5 or so super12 guys in the side!! (unfortunately im not one of them!!!)
Good stuff Blindy.
I'm pretty keen to start training - too bad League is still a good 4-5 months away. I'm doing my own stuff but of course, it's just not the same.
blindside
13-01-2006, 09:43 AM
went to my physio for another check up yesterday.
they said its good to go!!!! they think there is a little bit of lax in there, but nothing too much to worry about!!!! i cant beleive this.
he thinks it might have fused onto the pcl, which is holding it in and i only need to come back to see him if i strain it or it starts to buckle!!!
Unregistered
06-02-2006, 02:08 PM
played a 7's tournament on the weekend. knee felt fine. no op. and i have done a total rupture of the ACL. did all my exercises, my legs are strong as and wore a small thermoskin brace for a bit of confidence. got thru all 4 games fine...
BSIDE
blindside
20-02-2006, 09:52 AM
played my first full game since doing my ACL in June last year. pulled up a bit sore but got thru it all no worries.
how would you strap your Acl,
i can't find an illustrated tutorial on the net.
i am sure i have seen an elastoplast poster on it before though.
something like:
1 two anchors above and below the knee
2 then using four different straps form like a diamond at the back of the knee
3 repeat for a second coat
4 reapply the anchors to close off any loose tape
i am not sure if this is the right method and i would appreciate if anyone could post a link to the tutorial
this is just so that i can strap my knee for the game and may be merely psychological, but i would feel better with it strapped
~v
blindside
10-03-2006, 02:35 PM
the way i get it strapped is more psychological as you mention. the physios dont reckon it needs it!!! as i wear a thermoskin at training, i just get something like you mentioned, but no anchors, more of a figure8 across and behind the knee. it tightens up the area which is how i like it now and it feels good and not very restricting.
have you done your acl?? did you have the op? there is another guy i play with who did his cruciate 3 years ago and never had the op either. told me the other night. he has massive quads as well, and he was told as i have been told, the muscle mass is holding everything in place and my acl has now fused onto the pcl somehow!
BSIDE
:D
how would you strap your Acl,
i can't find an illustrated tutorial on the net.
i am sure i have seen an elastoplast poster on it before though.
something like:
1 two anchors above and below the knee
2 then using four different straps form like a diamond at the back of the knee
3 repeat for a second coat
4 reapply the anchors to close off any loose tape
i am not sure if this is the right method and i would appreciate if anyone could post a link to the tutorial
this is just so that i can strap my knee for the game and may be merely psychological, but i would feel better with it strapped
~v
so basically forming an x on the back of the knee
to protect my knee from hyperextending, Which is when feel a little unstable (when my knee locks straight when i am pushing in a scrum or maul)
yeah i did my knee june 2003, but i was moving to australia at the end of the year so i had the recon done in dec 2003.
i spoke to a few highly respected sports physicians and a few physio's and the ortho, they all said that to play sport you should have the knee reconstructed,
they said it was not impossible for me to play sport without it reconstructed but then i should start saving up for a knee replacement at about 40 years of age or even younger.
they said that playing without the op would cause major degeneration in my knee, and i would definately pay for it later in life.
but i seriously stuffed my knee, bucket handle damage to my cartilage strains to the medial ligaments and a ruptured ACL. my knee stayed swollen and relatively undiagnosed (because it was so swollen) so 10 days later i had an arthroscopy to have a look and to fix the cartilage (which was the only damage diagnosed as definate before the scope).
now i am a little nervous and probably won't be fully reliable on the field for the first couple of games
~v
blindside
02-04-2006, 06:54 PM
played our first competition game yesterday. had it strapped. went well. iced it after the game for an hour or so and feels fine today...
Silverlining
27-04-2006, 03:09 PM
...and my acl has now fused onto the pcl somehow!
BSIDE
:D
My specialist said that he found out my acl had attached itself to my pcl when they did the op - I thought it was abit weird - nice to know I'm not such a freak :rolleyes:
Syd Uni sports clinic
27-04-2006, 03:23 PM
This is quite common. It gives you a semi-stable knee but usually not good enough for rapid change of direction if you do this in sport.
blindside
06-05-2006, 01:02 PM
yeh i know, but its round 6 now and i havent had any problems including 2 7's tournaments, 4 trial games and the 6 rounds so far. plus the 3 training sessions a week.
i am lucky and i know it. especially when it was 2 days before the op i had to pull out due to the wrong insurance. i was going to wait a year then i started doing all my exercises, then playing oztag, then played the 7's tournament and went with it strapped nice and tight and it works!! our physio doenst even reckon it needs strapping, just that my leg muscles are big/strong enough to hold it together for one season!!
i know its different but all the physios i see now are like, "wow, there is a bit of movement there but hardly any to stop you playing rugby" and ive seen 5 different physios about it......
cheers,
BSIDE
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